He comes charging in the door after school. "I'm starving!"
"What do you want?" I ask tentatively, testing his mood. "Something. I don't know. What do we have?" "Braden, you know what we have. You want an omelet or some chicken nuggets?" (his two usual after school favorites). "I don't know. I'm starving, but I don't know what I want. Tell me everything." Not this again, I think. A lot of times I have to list every possible thing he could eat that I have in the house. I hate this. I go to the pantry and call off some things. I do the same at the frig and freezer. I have to resay them several times while he's yelling that he's hungry. Starving to death even. He thinks he is. After about fifteen minutes, he decides on a ham and cheese omelet. I make it. He eats about four bites. Crisis #1 averted.
"How was your day? Do you have a lot of homework?" "It sucked. Yeah, I have tons. Will you help me with my Social Studies. We have to do an outline. I'll tell you what to put, if you'll type it for me." "I'll do that, but you have to do the rest on your own." "Yeah, right," he responds.
He plays on the computer for about a half an hour, then talks to some friends on the phone. A couple of times I interrupt to remind him of his homework. I'm constantly watching my tone of voice when I talk to him. I'm always trying to make things easier for him. Anything to avoid a meltdown. Then, while I'm practically kissing his ass, I get pissed off. Mad that I have to do this. Mad that I'm willing to do this. I'm like a battered wife, afraid of the drunk husband. But, it's just my 70 pound 13 year old.
After about an hour, I start making supper. He wants me to type his outline, NOW. I tell him to wait until after dinner. "Why don't you start your other stuff while I'm cooking?" I suggest. "No. I have to do my outline first, and you have to help me." I start to boil inside. But on the outside, I try to persuade him that my way makes the most sense. It infuriates him. He knows I'm right, and that kills him. I'm making supper while he starts swearing. At first, just swearing, then swearing at me. Calling me names. "Fucking retard. You probably don't even know how to do an outline. You're probably going to burn supper, anyway so just stop cooking and help me."
I can't be nice anymore. I have to keep being nice. He gets nastier and nastier. "I need help with my homework, you fucking whore."
I start to blow. "Braden. All day long, everyday, I do whatever I can for you. I wake you up in the morning, I bring you orange juice in bed, for christs sake. I drive you to the bus stop. I get you a snack after school. I help you with your homework. I let you have friends over. I take you to friends' houses. I give you money so you can go bowling with your friends. I don't tell you "no" as often as I should so you don't lose it. I kiss your ass day in and day out, to avoid your meltdowns, and you know what? You lose it anyway. So, I'm done."
"Oh yeah. We'll see who's done." He charges me. Shoving me. Not too hard at first. But, when I don't react, he pushes with more force. Sometimes, nearly knocking me off balance. "You think I like this? You're the one who's getting me going. You're egging me on."
"No Braden, I'm not. I'm just done working so hard to avoid it." But, even as I say it, I know I'm lying. I'm not done. I'm just done for right now. I'll do it again tomorrow. Hell, I'll probably even do it again tonight.
He starts throwing things at me. His soda bottle lid. A crumbled napkin. I try to ignore him. I start filling out an insurance form. He insists he needs the pen I'm using. I hand it to him, and get another one. Now he needs that pen. I tell him that if he gives me back my original pen, he can have this one. But, he's not having both. He tries to wrestle it out of my hands. I put the pen under my butt, and he can't figure out where it is. Already he's not thinking straight. "Where the hell is my fucking pen? What the fuck did you do with it, you bitch?" He tries to push me off the chair. He tries to tip it over. He goes to the pen jar and starts throwing pens at me. I get up and walk over to the stove where supper is cooking. While I'm standing there, doing something other than paying attention to him, he demands my attention. "Look at me while I talk to you. Stop ignoring me!" I continue at the stove, hoping that Keith stays in the living room. These episodes don't usually last as long when it's just me. But, once Keith gets involved, they get more fierce and drawn out. He starts shoving me again. Throwing things at the stove. "I need you to help me! I can't calm down! Do something!" I'm crying. He's crying. "I don't know what to do, Braden. I don't know how to help. Try to take deep breaths." "That doesn't fucking work, and you know it! Why are you trying to make this worse? You're supposed to be the mom. Make it stop!" "I don't know how," I repeat. "I don't know how."
He gets quiet for a minute. Maybe it's over. Maybe it's passed, I hope. I know it isn't, but I don't stop hoping. Suddenly, he's in the room, after Keith. Hitting him. Kicking him. Punching him. Keith, of course, can't be calm. He can't not react. They start arguing with eachother. Telling eachother who's boss, when they're both wrong. This goes on for a little while. "If you hit me one more time, I'll knock you through a wall." "C'mon, dad, you pussy. You won't touch me." Really, that's what Braden wants. He wants Keith's reaction. It's fuel to his fire. Keith tries to restrain Braden, but as soon as he does, Braden cries that he can't breathe, or that it makes it worse, so Keith lets go. As soon as he's free, Braden charges him again. This happens again and again. I try to bait him into coming back into the kitchen with me. "C'mon Braden. Let's get started on that homework." or "Supper's almost done. You want to get the dishes for me?" Neither one of them works.
Finally, after about fifteen minutes, or is it three hours, he comes back into the kitchen. I'm dishing out supper for him and Keith. I have no appetitie. "Aren't you eating? Why aren't you eating? Is it because of me?" he asks, crying. "I'm just not hungry. I'll eat later." "You have to come to the table though and sit with us while we eat. We have to be together." I agree. I sit there while he eats his supper, and Keith his. I'm simmering on the inside. Sick of me. As soon as he finishes, he demands that I help him with his homework. "Not until you ask me nicely, and apoligize to me," I require. "No," he says. "Then I'm not helping you," I answer. He starts all over again. "Please help me with my fucking homework. Now. There, I asked you nicely." I tell him that won't cut it. Try again. He does, and it's a little better. "Now you just have to apologize," I say. He refuses, and so do I.
I start cleaning up supper dishes. He goes after Keith again. Even though it's me he's mad at. Even though it's himself he's mad at. I sit at the island, smoking my sixth cigarette in the past half an hour. He comes back in, throwing his school books around, throwing his notebook at me. "I said help me." "I said no." I try to sound calm. Strong but calm. I probably don't. He doesn't say anything for about five minutes, then tries again. He's very sweet when he says, with tears in his eyes, "Please help me with my homework. I need your help." "Braden, I told you I want an apology. You have to say you're sorry." "I already did. You didn't answer me, but I said it." I know he didn't. There's a very slight possibility he did, but I'm almost certain he didn't. But, once again, for the sake of a little peace and quiet, I indulge his charade and agree to help him. While he's sitting by me, reading his Social Studies, he tries to make small talk. He tries to be extra nice. To make up for earlier. After about twenty minutes of outline making, we're almost done. He's playing with the phone in his lap, hitting some buttons over and over and over again. The noise is driving me crazy. I ask him to please stop. He doesn't. I tell him to stop. He doesn't. I tell him I won't help him anymore until he stops, but he does it more. Faster, and closer to me. My head is about to split open, and I'm about to explode out of my skin. Keith hears him not listening to me, and comes in the kitchen and grabs the phone out of his hands. He erupts.
The kicking, punching, hitting, throwing, slamming all start again. Keith's trying to restrain himself, but he can't. I barely can. I go in the room and sit on the sofa, watching this. A grown man sitting in a chair, getting hit repeatedly by a little, skinny kid. It's pathetic, and I feel sick. I'm willing Keith to ignore him. Please don't say anything. Please. I know it goes against everything you believe in, but please don't give him what he wants. I just want it to be over. Whatever it takes.
Keith agrees to give him back the phone, if he finishes his homework. Braden agrees too. Keith hands him the phone, and immediately, Braden starts pushing the damn buttons again. I look at Keith, please ignore him. He does, and soon Braden stops and we're back to homework. He's miserable, but mostly in check. I'm wishing I shot heroin or something, and Lord only knows what Keith is thinking.
Our family show comes on, Prison Break, and we all go into the living room to watch it. Braden goes out of his way during the whole show to be extra nice. Small talk. Little jokes he thinks we'll like. Trying to ask questions about the show, just so we'll talk to him, which we do. We hate ourselves for it, but we do.
We go to bed at 10:00. At 10:45, I realize that even though I feel like I could sleep for a week straight, I can't fall asleep. I come downstairs and make a cup of tea. I light a cigarette. I hear footsteps on the stairs. It's Braden. He comes in the kitchen, "Mom?" "Yeah, Braden." "You okay? Why aren't you in bed?" "I just couldn't sleep," I reassure him, "I thought I'd have a cup of tea, then try again." "It's because of me, isn't it?" He's crying again. "Because of me, you can't even sleep. I'm horrible. You hate me."
I assure him that I don't hate him. I tell him I love him.
54 comments:
This is way, way raw stuff.
You know, like most primates who walk erect and have survived into adulthood, I think I know a lot about life. You've humbled me into admitting that there are things I don't know.
I have one question about the reaction that most male adults would have when freshly presented with this problem, which would be to turn him over one knee and paddle him: Have you ever tried causing him sufficient physical pain, or have you been told that such would not be an appropriate reaction?
And, have you ever been told about a light at the end of this tunnel?
You're not a fuckin' whore, you're a fuckin' Saint!
schell... my heart breaks for you. i have never experienced this and i don't know the answers. i think there has to be something that can be done. the anguish he feels scares me. i think someday he might hurt himself. enough for it to be really bad. not to say what might happen to you and keith. what help have you gotten from the doctors? do they know how bad it gets? if you haven't gotten any answers from them then you need to find a different doctor. the longer this goes on the farther he is slipping away. he knows what he is doing is hurtful but the control is gone. even someone teaching him how to control the anger if you are not in favor of medication. has he been tested for food allergies? i apologize if you have gone through all this, but since you posted your trials, perhaps you won't mind a few suggestions thrown out there in the attempt to help you. i fear the future for him. what happens when you aren't around? how will he function in an adult environment? adulthood is right around the corner. he has to be helped to control himself. what job will he hold? Schell, please, get him some intense help. I say this with love. I truly don't have any answers. Just some common sense coming from another mom.
I don't know what to say, except you have my unbridled admiration
I agree with what Bert , Spidey and Mems posted, and have a question: Is there a support group from families like yours? You and Keith need to get counseling from a professional who can help you deal with the anger and the stress. It isn't helping that you can't sleep. Keith and Braden aside, you need some reinforcements for YOU. and now or else I can see you running away and never looking back
---emma
Is this what you want Schell ? To have sappy assholes write sympathetic bullshit saying "oh poor Schell, Oh poor Keith . Oh poor Brandon "? Sure seems like it to me when the problem is staring you right in the face . This little spoiled brat has you and his father wrapped around around his little finger and he knows it . He's king of the little world he lives in when he is in your home. As far as from what you have said he doesn't pulll this shit anywhere but at home and he only pulls this shit on you and keith . Come on schell, read what you just wrote . You used the word pathetic and frankly I wish there was a stronger word but pathetic will have to do . I never in my life show 2 such weak willed parents and don't give me this bi polar crap . It's so fucking obvious whats going on there . Jesus Schell, wake up will you please . I have no vested interest in this . As a matter of fact I'll likely get shit from the little group of sob sisters in here ( and I include bert in the sob sister group). But the fact is Schell even Bert who months ago thought it terrible that I suggested you slap this little monster is now saying " hey , maybe you need to spank him " . Jesus Christ Schell, i have no sympathy for you or keith or your poor distorted son . You created the whole situation , Keith bought into it and your son saw it as his way to rule the little kingdom of Schellonia with it's slaves and jesters at his beck and call. Fucking pathetic . Sorry Schell but it's so obvious from reading that post whats going on . Allan
I deleted a part of my original comment where I suggested that you not pay any attention to what Sparky was going to say. Not because he's all wet, but because I knew what he was going to say and I thought it premature.
Which is why I asked my question... which boils down to, could Braden have been "spanked" out of this behavior? I certainly can understand that his condition makes him not amenable to the type of 'corrective measure' that worked on my kids. I suspect that this is actually the case, but I wanted to hear it from you.
Unlike the magnificent Sparkly, I do see shades of grey and understand that some behaviors are outside my experience.
So don't leave me hung out to dry here, babe, fill us in on what place, if any, corporal punishment has in dealing with Braden's condition.
Bert , call me the magnificant sparky or any other idiotic term you like but I'm just calling this like I see it from what schell writes and in my opinion I'm likely the only one here honest enough to do so . Since I have no intention of turning this into a pissing match with you considering it's a problem schell has and not a problem between you and me I will refrain in the future writing in this poor womans pathetic admissions to the world blog and I'm sure your crap trap will do her lots of good as her kid continues to get worse and worse as he has been doing . allan
While he has indeed gotten worse and worse...any kind of physical punishment we've tried in the past, has done nothing. Neither has grounding, taking away toy/belongings, or anything else we can think of.
And, during these episodes (we had another one this afternoon, by the way), any kind of physical contact is like a challange to him. It really fans the flames and things only get worse.
With his doctor, we've been trying different kinds of medicines, but they don't seem to work.
The weird thing is, if you knew Braden, you would think he was a sweet, compassionate little boy. When he's not in these manic states, he really is enjoyable to be around, empathetic toward others, and a loving son. It's truly like Jekyl/Hyde.
He's never been formally tested for food allergies, but I've kept track of what he eats and when these meltdowns occur and I can't find any correlation. Unless he's allergic to water, I don't think that's it.
I'm open to any suggestions, as I've exhausted every thought I can come up with.
Allan, we've tried your route, trust me. If I were in your position, I'd probably think the exact same thing.
Dearest Schell, I'm way not smart enough to give you sage advice. You are living in a nightmare. Please feel my love & support in the bad times.
And Allan is full of shit.
R
I've never really suggested a route Schell and sorry for again adding to the discourse in here since I said I wouldn't but after reading this over and over I suppose going on years now about this kid I will suggest a route that you should take , in my opinion anyway .
I think that boy needs to get away from you and your husband , post haste and vice versa. Probably the best thing for your son before it's too late is for you to send him to a private boys school where he will learn some disipline and respect . I don't think he has allergies or any other such problem . If he did these episodes wouldn't just happen around you and keith . They would happen everywhere and as far as I know you said thats not the case .
The fact is ( or at least the facts I see from reading this stuff month after month ) this kid as I said is the ubber boss of that household . He controls everyone in the house and has you all at his beck and call whenever he wants .
Look Schell , I'm seeing this as a complete outsider . If I read about a Schell Koch gut knifed by her young son in one of my newspapers one morning I wont be floored and crying like Binx would be . It would just be another of hundreds of pathetic stories I read day in and day out the only difference is I'd probably say to bill , hey see this story , I "know" this woman from the chat room . Thats it Schell, I don't profess to be your friend . I don't even really know you Schell anymore then ( im guessing here ) the rest of the people who have commented on this situation do .
That being the case I gain nothing from telling you how I see this but since you put it all in a public blog I will, and have , given my opinion of the situation . And thats it Schell, it's my opinion on another story I have read about . Nothing more . take it as you like .
Again I will say the best thing for all of you is to get away from each other and that means that boy goes somewhere and I hate to use this term , but somewhere he will be made a man of (he will be a pysical man in a short few years , dont kid yourself , time flies ) , maybe even a military acacdemy . He's a wreck, you are a wreck and your husband is a wreck .
The only thing I may be calling wrong and I hate to think this is the case but it very well may be and that is you somewhere deep inside like what is going on with your son . I have no idea why that would be but I can tell you one thing and that is people do some damn strange things in their lives . If thats the case and only you know that then you need to get some preofessional help starting tomorrow .
For the life of me what I really find disturbing is how you seem to want to put this whole mess out for public consumption in a blog .
Thats it Schell, except I'd like to appologize to Spidey . After reading all the posts again I see she at least was realilistic in telling you you better do something and you better do it real soon . sorry spidey , the first time I read this I was in the middle of something and didn't read all the posts as well as I should have .
Allan
Very nice Elu , I would have hoped a lawyer could do better then that but apparantly not . allan
Sparky is a wad who shows more compassion to a fucking dead eel than to a living human being with problems.
He's never had children so he assumes raising one is as easy as saying "SNAP OUT OF IT," and things miraculously heal themselves.
--emma
another brilliant comment from the always brilliant emma . Maybe never having had kids gives me a little different perspective and maybe even a better perspective on the situation then other people . maybe it doesn't but maybe it does .
I may be wrong but I don't think a crack oncologist needs to have had cancer to cure the disease in others .
Stick to TV Emma , its your strong point , allan
And by the way Emma the possible solution for the problem I suggested is hardly a "snap out of it " quick cure but I suppose you think whats been going on for years is a better solution .
AK
Okay, I have come up with a solution; it's a two-parter, and I really do think it has a shot!
First, do you think Braden thinks of himself as athletic, or do you think he'd like to be athletic? Because if either answer is yes, we're on the right track.
I was once a runner. Running and mountain hiking are strenuous; when you're in shape doing these activities well leaves you feeling glorious.
Convince Braden he should be a runner, a long distance runner. For high school, this would be cross-country. Convince him that he could go out for track next year and be a track star. If he thinks he might like to take a crack at it, buy a treadmill. (It won't hurt you and Keith, I bet!) Set some goals for his running on the treadmill. And without making a big deal out of it, get him on the treadmill when he seems to be about to have an 'attack.' Tell him this will be his way of attacking back at his own body. Tell him (hey, it's well documented that placebos can work cures!) that by running, his brain will produce endorphins. He can do the research himself on endorphins, how they calm you down, make you all groovy and mellow.
The hope would be you'd get two results, a long distance high school runner, and a method for him to work on curbing his attacks.
If this actually works, you and I can work out some form of, er, you know, payment...
Here's an honest to god quote from myself that you can use! "I really am serious. Getting into great running shape does change how you view yourself and your place in the world," he said, humbly...
That all sounds great bert on paper but you better read the amount of "tell him , tell him , tell hims " in what you just wrote and its obviouus Schell aint telling this kid anything nor is her husband . That could work nicely in with a reasonable boy but I have to wonder how well you people read what schell has written .
The problem in this situation appears to be Schell and the way this boy has learned to control her and her husband like they are his little puppy dogs . You go there and tell the kid Bert , That might actually work but jesus if you read what schell has written month in and month out its obvious shes not telling him anything without the kid again going into control mode IE: blow ups , punching , smashing shit , threats . all controlling methods he seems to use to great affect on his parents . I still think the best thing is for those people to get away from each other and a private boys acacdemy would be just the thing to straighten the boy out ( hopefully) .
Oh Emma ,lifes full of maybes . I think Bert called them grey areas .
Emma even your TV shows have maybes , maybe they will be canceled , Now go park your spreading ass on the couch, grab the remote and click around the channels till you are in oblivian and thank you for your brilliant assesessment.
Oh yeah , one thing . it's going to be very cold in that God forsaken town you live in tonight , Please have some compassion and don't throw that poor cat out on your unheated porch . You have to be one mean bitch to force a short haired cat to stay on a freezing cold porch every night in sub freezing weather . You really should give the cat away , you don't have the slightest idea of how to take care of an animal, allan
oh my! I struck a nerve with the Full of Shit Guy.
Settle your nerves Sparky or you might hit the bottle.
-emma
You sure are one tacky person Emma . You didn't hit a nerve at all , i just hate to think of that poor cat out on that porch in 0 degree weather and I think you seriously need to find a good home for him .
As far as drinking goes if I ever do start drinking again it wont be because of anything you say and it takes one real piece of trash to bring up an addiction that someone has beaten as a way to attack them and Emma , if you are nothing else you are truely a piece of trash .
Allan
Schell - He wants you and Keith to take control and never ever back down. He wants to know you love him enough to do it. He wants you to forbid that language in your house and to ensure that he is punished the same way every single time even if he tests you on it for the next 3 years.
Thats about it anon and it's nice to see someone talking sense in here about this .
If Schell keeps wiping this boys ass everytime he shits with toilet paper dipped in gold dust he's going to keep on with attention grabbing bullshit until it grabs the attention of the law when he goes to far with these BS antics and the law wont wipe his ass with gold dust toilet paper .
But again as I said I really don't care that much , this is just a news story to me . I don't truely know Schell from a hole in the wall. If she wants to go on with this distuctive behavior until shes wiping the ass of a 20 year old man who slaps her around thats perfectly her right . Allan
I will try to keep this brief.
This window into your son's behaviour identifies the heart, and weakness, of the nurture/nature debate. Evidence on the nurture side of the ledger is your suggestion that no prescribed drug has (yet?) made an impact in your son's, and your family's, condition. Were his difficulties organically or molecularly based, it would seem reasonable that in the array of medicines now available, some sort of improvement could be predicted.
Toward the nature side of the equation is your (well described) reports that no range of behavioural approaches have provided real change. If, in fact, a child is a product of its surroundings, then it could reasonable be assumed that somehow, somewhere, inroads into his condition, toward contentment or simply containment, would have been made. This has not occured and must be a source of continued sorrow and bewilderment.
I offer these few meagre words not as any sort of answer but as a backdrop, even a starch, to the more loose, off the cuff remarks presented by others. This is not to deny the acumen of some of these other comments. I say this as an infrequent but always interested observer to what is a heartbreaking and well told story.
One last thing: Over time, you have identified a conflict, sexually and intimacy based, between you and your husband. Surely, in your contacts with therapists and doctors from assorted fields, I am not alone in suggesting to you that your son's behaviour does not sit outside this conflict, that in fact it may be a recapitulation, a playing out, of its unattended properties. But where this more primal conflict between you and your husband as a couple, and as individuals, falls along the nurture or nature debate, I will leave to future discussions.
I wish the very best for all involved.
An excellent diagnosis Doctor but I'm afraid it's way too "wordy" for Schells greek chorus in here to understand ( or perhaps your obtusness will confuse them enough that they will think it a brilliamt assessment and of course acting like a Doctor of Medicine is sure to cow most of them).
Let me put it more succinctly Doctor . The facts are medicines and punishments haven't worked . The facts also are that this boy doesn't have these episodes at malls , in school etc but only at home when his parents are there . Personally and this is my opinion as a layman I think it's only when Schell is there and Keith is only a secondary target of the little tyrant .
That all being the case logically these episodes ARE NOT uncontrolled happenings but rather highly CONTROLLED manipulations of people the boy knows he can out right make clean up his shit if he were to choose to defecate on the new carpet . He doesn't pull this with others because he knows others will laugh at him and what a fool hes being and wont clean up his shit like his pathetic parents will .
One thing you brought up that I had decided to hold my tongue about is Schells despicable castration of her current husband in front of this audience of fools who laugh along with her that she forces him to do things to get a measily "blow job" . Keith has been made into a laughing stock in here. Of course none of the greek chorus will point out to Schell that a decent wife DOESN'T talk about how she controls her husband with her sexual favors and perhaps thats the reason Schell has had numerous marriages that never seem to endure . I'm speculating here Doctor and as I said I'm a layman in the world of Psycho Analysis.
There could very well be a possibility this boy Braden sees exactly how Schell ridicules her husband and has decided in his young mind he will never allow himself to become such an object of ridicule from female ( his mother at present , likely a wife in the future who will also wipe his ass) . This may very well be the case or at least an avenue to explore .
Well Doctor , thank you for your assessment of this most interesting case and lets hope the parties involved find some resolution to it all .
As one of the greek chorus suggested perhaps the boy could take up sports like he did in his native mexico and turn out to also be a fine outstanding adult just like him. Lets hope ,
Allan
Schell, if sending you good wishes would help, you'd have all of mine. Emma's right though, a "knowledgable" support group for you and Keith is a good idea. I am sure you are not the only parents who have this sort of stuff going on.
Bipolar disorder is messy and heartbreaking. As I learn to live with an adult with BPD, I can see the messiness involved.
By the way folks, I'm not sure you can discipline away a mental illness which is what BPD IS; in fact, I am pretty sure you can't.
I am sure it doesn't help that Braden's brain chemistry is messed-up any way from the onset of adolescence. Hopefully, the right combination of medications will be found to help him, but given that his brain chemistry is in flux in may take awhile.
Venting, as we're seeing here, however, is good for Schell. It can save her mental health, so maybe this is a time for us to say very little on the advice side and more on the support side.
Schell, again, you have all my hope that things turn out well as quickly as they can.
Allan, actually, we don't know that Braden doesn't have these episodes in malls. We know that his episodes more frequently happen at home. I imagine they do happen just not on the same scale.
Bi-polar disorder is very similar to hypertension or asthma or even cancer, in that it may take years to find the right combination of medications that work. It literally took years to find the right BPD medication for my late uncle.
Since what most of us actually know about bi-polar disorder could visit in a thimble maybe, just maybe, we should just not give advice.
Look Rosa , the only person I ever "knew " who said he was bipolar was andy aka Bukagain so I freely admit I'm no expert on it but since you are are you telling me a person with a fucked up brain chemistry can control where and when and with who they have these bi polar episodes ? It would seem to me if it's brain chemistry then these episodes should just happen randomly and not when and where the bipolar person chooses.
I don't buy into the fact that Bradon is bipolar ( again I freely admit I'm no expert so I'd like to hear from you about it ) .
In my reading of all this over many months rarely ever saying a word it seems to me that this kid needs exactly what he's not getting and thats someone who will disipline him and keep him in line which is why I suggested a private boys school where he likely ( if HE chooses ) take up cross country running and will also learn you can't come home and say "mom, get off your ass and type this report and also show me every morsel of food you have in the kitchen so I can decide what I want even tho I'll only take 2 bites then throw the rest in your face .
allan
Sorry Rosa , i was writing that last post before I saw your post saying you also know nothing of bi polar problems .
I may be wrong but it seems to me modern America wants to attribute all the problems they might have with child behavior on this brain disease or that brain disease and medicate the shit out of any kid who " might" have one of these diseases . I'm not saying they don't exist , I'm sure they do but I have to wonder if they exist on the scale modern America wants to think they exist or if it's just a conveniant way to explain poor child rearing . Maybe this kid does have a messed up brain . But maybe he doesn't and all he needs in his life is a strong male figure to help guide him into adulthood . His father surely isn't that person from what I've seen written here about Keith . allan
Allan,
I try not to engage you when you go off on a tyrant about things you don't understand, but I find that I have to.
Braden gets told no plenty of times. He doesn't rule the house. Sure, we walk on eggshells, but that doesn't mean he gets to do whatever he wants. He has limits, and gets punished when crossing them.
Secondly, while I say things about Keith in the chatroom or in here, I do know enough about child-rearing to know it would be detrimental to Braden (and everyone here) for me to joke like that at home. I don't say anything negative about Keith in front of the kids...in fact, when we argue in front of the kids, as all couples do, sometimes it's Keith's fault and sometimes it's mine. SOmetimes he wins, sometimes I do. Just like when I grew up, and probably when you grew up.
Sure, if Keith were a bit stronger in his child-rearing skills things might be a little better, but they're not.
For someone who doesn't care about this, you sure have the most comments.
Hi, Schell. I read this a few days ago, and I can't stop thinking about it.
First, you're a powerful writer, and maybe someday you can channel some of your frustration about this into something special, and something that might help other people in the same boat. (I've always thought you were a great writer--not just this.)
Second, I'm from a family full of schizophrenics. It's easy to look in from the outside and suggest easy answers, but there's no panacea in a bottle or a therapist's chair, and adolescence is going to add even more challenges. I think you're giving him the most loving and consistent parenting possible. Instead of looking for something magical you and Keith can do or say to somehow "cure" him, I'd like to see you both focus on self-care, so you can find the strength to keep going every day. Find a way to nurture Schell, and then just keep being the good mother that your instincts tell you to be.
Oh, and one last thing. My mother is schizophrenic, and she's a happy ending story. After years of suffering, and four different visits to the psych ward, she's been happy and healthy for over twenty years. In fact, she's far better than she ever was before, with an inspiring inner peace and wisdom. She found the right meds, at the right dose. Brain chemistry is a mysterious business, but there's hope.
First off Schell - i have not gone off on a tirade but have only commented on what I've read in here month after month and Schell I also don't really care about the woman in The Bronx apartment who flushed her baby down the toilet but being its in a newspaper its for public consumption and I might very well have an opinion on it too. ( I better explain that was an example I made up just to illustrate how I see this ) Since this is also a public blog and since I have some ideas that I surely think might be helpful in this case I finally sickened of all the boo hooers and decided to put my ideas in print . When I say I don't care what I mean is if either you or the mother in The Bronx dissappear tomorrow , POOF, off the face of the earth it really doesn't affect my life much . As I stated over and over Schell, it's just my opinion on a news story . If you want just the greek chorus only to comment on your blog please state that or make an invitation only blog . I will respect either .
AS far as your husband goes thats your affair except that you tend to make it the affair of others by continually rediculing him and stating over and over how you make him beg for your sexual favors . Thats pretty tacky Schell but again if you get something out of making your husband look the idiot to the greek chorus who titters away with you so be it. But personally I find it pretty sad . Hell Schell, i wouldn't even put down my ex the way you put down Keith and our relationship ended years ago .
And Schell, if you have to say you continually walk on eggs and you have had thoughts as you stated of hitting your son in the head with a frying pan as you stated and the boy hits you , threatens you , punches his father and you , smashes up the house and you freely put that in this public blog and you get back something you didn't want IE: someone telling some truth ( or at least a more realistic version of it then damn near anyone else has told you , in my opinion of course) instead of a new member of the chorus then thats the way it is schell .
Don't try to pin this mess on my tirade when I'm not having a tirade but just telling you how I see this mess and maybe a way out of it IE: The kid needs to get away from YOU.
And thats how I see it Schell and you can make what you want of it .
Allan
Allan, I'm not pinning anything on you. I'm just clearing up some facts that you seem to have misconstrued.
For the record, I don't take pleasure in Keith begging for sex...as I've said at least a hundred times, I wish he'd never ask at all.
It is indeed a public blog, and you have every right to comment on it. Just as I have every right to either agree with your opinions, or disagree.
I've never said anything about any of your other comments, my intent here is to say that until you've walked in my shoes, or the flushing-baby-woman's shoes, don't be so absolute in your statements.
The words "just telling it like I see it" or a variation thereof is a red flag for "I am utterly without empathy and have a deep and unmet need that cannot be filled." My comment is not an invitation for a forty paragraph rebuttal, Vanda.
Schell, I've been dealing with our own issues at home with a daughter and often just when I think I can relax and not worry so much about her, she proves me wrong. But I've been thinking a lot about the serenity prayer, for accepting that there are things about other people I cannot change. It seems to help and I refocus on things I can affect. I agree with Verb that you have to take care of yourself. Vanda regardless, there are many people here pulling for you.
Sonya , I don't quite understand your last sentence ( there are people pulling for me) . I'll try and keep this short Sonya , maybe 20 pages but I'm not looking for people to "pull" for me . I don't see this as a contest I have to win which is what pulling for me seems to indicate .
As I have said I can only give my opinion from what I read in here and have read over months and months . I even went back and read old posts today and have reread these posts numerous times . I have nothing else to base my opinions on Sonya BUT what Schell says in here . I'm not in that house seeing it all . Maybe if I was I would have a different opinion or maybe I'd have an even stronger position that that kid has to get the Hell out of there and that Schell has to get the hell away from him . Either that or everything Schell writes is basically fictitional and things aren't quite as bad as as she makes them seem . I don't know and there is no way I'll ever know so if I'm going to give an opinion like everyone else has given an opinion I have only THIS to base it on and to use the phrase " as I see it " .
What else can I base my opinion on Sonya? There is nothing else in this case . I don't think my suggestion that the boy be sent off to a boys boarding school is a horrible suggestion and it may very well be ( and I believe it is) exactly what he needs . Schell is bad for him and he is bad for schell .Sorry if that means Schell has failed as a mother in her mind or anyone elses (I personally don't see it that way } but it's just what it seems to me as the best for everyone involved .
Go read all the back Schell posts , i just did . Then read them again . She's tired , she says it over and over . Of course shes tired. The situation "as I see it" and frankly as Schell prints it is a total mess and maybe its a time for a major change instead of humping this kid full of medications . Thats it Sonya , hope I didn't go on too long but I like to make myself perfectly clear in here. Allan
Oh sorry sonya , i misread what you said , pulling for schell irregardless of what vanda says , thats it , it doesn't cnage my opinion .
Dearest Schell, it may take years to find the right combination of meds and therapy to deal with these issues. I don't know a hell of a lot about bipolar disorder from a biochemical or scientific viewpoint, but I'm bipolar so I do know that it sometimes feels . . . well, lousy is far too mild a term, but I don't know a better one. This certainly isn't the happily-ever-after world that we are supposed to experience. It is a family crisis which goes on and on.
You are loved, and are in my thoughts tonight.
R
Could it be your son is so angry because he may be gay and is so upset trying to cope with that as a teen?
Just a thought.
Allan makes sense despite everyone bashing him. He just doesn't know how to express it.
Low-oxalate diet. Everything you have described can be corrected biomedically, except maybe you and Keith.
A lot of bipolars hold steady jobs. There's hope for Cyber.
I'd comment on Verb's crazy family, as well, but it's almost too easy.
"...the words 'just telling it like I see it' or a variation thereof is a red flag for 'I am utterly without empathy and have a deep and unmet need that cannot be filled.'"
Sparkle, you never responded, that I could see, to Tree's hypothesis, that all you're doing here is trying to fill, unsuccessfully, a deep and unmet need.
What's the word on that? From whence springs your verbosity, your frantic need to express so forcefully how little you care?
"I'd comment on Verb's crazy family, as well, but it's almost too easy."
Ditto.
Thats sonyas opinion bert and it needed no response from me.
Go to bed bert and try to dream of your days a a world class cross country runner . As I stated before I'm not commenting on Schells blog because I want to get into a pissing match with you , I comment on it as I see fit and as I feel might help the situation . I really don't give a shit how you see it bert. Allan
Ah, the heady thrill of anonymity for the timid and weak of character...
Sorry, Schell. How awful. What does JJ do during all this?
It's odd, when I read this I have mixed feelings. My parents divorced when I was three and I lived with my mother. My mother did not believe in disciplining children with any sort of force. The harshest thing that I think she ever threatened me with was that she would pinch me if I didn't behave better and that was only when I was really, really bad. My father, on the other hand, believed in spare the rod, spoil the child (except as it relates to me but that's another story).
So, when I was a kid, I (as well as all of my sibs) was pretty much a spoiled rotten brat, disgustingly so, and would often throw temper tantrums similar to what you're describing. Braden's are a little worse with the violence and the language but I'm not sure that it's not because kids now-a-days are exposed to worse language and behavior via movies and tv than I was as a kid. I threw tantrums at my mother but never my father. Why? A couple of reasons, I had a different relationship with my mother than I did with my father – different needs, etc. – and I knew my father would NOT tolerate it, etc.
An example of an Urban tantrum – I came home from school one day, I was in first grade, and my mother wasn’t home (back then we walked to and from school). She was at the next door neighbors and didn’t realize that I was home yet. I came in the house, did the usual kid thing of hollering out, “Mom, I’m home” and got no response. Unusual. So, I called out again, nothing.
Now, I did realize that my mother wasn’t home and that should have been no big deal but I got angry because I wanted her to be home so I continued to holler out that I was home a few more times and then, got so mad that I threw a tantrum and ran through the house knocking things over and breaking things. My mother showed up about 15 minutes after I got home and by that time, the house was in a shambles and the first words out of my mouth were, “I hate you. Where were you? I came home and you weren’t here.” My mother hugged me, said she was sorry, I continued to tell her how much I hated her and screamed and cried and threw a fit and she patiently sat there hugging me and telling me she was sorry. No rancor, she really felt bad. No yelling at me for what I did, nuttin’. Eventually I calmed down and she went about picking up the house.
Reading your description of Braden's fits brings back memories of tantrums that I threw as a kid and I can still remember exactly how I felt while I was throwing these tantrums. I can still remember and feel the frustration and anger that was in me when I was throwing the tantrums – these feelings are gone from me but, it’s like a flashback, I can remember what it was like. As a kid, I had no idea why I was doing it. As an adult, I know exactly why I was doing it and it was a combination of things – childhood insecurities, need for attention, feeling out of control and wanting to try to regain some control, being spoiled and pushing for boundaries, trying to manipulate my mother, get my own way, sibling rivalry for mom’s attention, etc. Some of these feelings probably sound contradictory but, that’s part of the problem.
Years later, when I was all grown up, my mother and sibs and I were sitting around talking about things we did as kids and my mother brought up our tantrums and I told her that she was partially responsible for our tantrums because she let us get away with them and that we never threw tantrums with dad because we knew better which, I still believe is true. However, that was only part of it, another part of it was that I had different expectations and needs in my relationship with my mother than I did with my father so the fuel just wasn’t there in my relationship with my dad.
Not sure what my point here is other than when I read your post about Braden’s fits it resonated with me. That’s not to say that Braden feels the same when he’s having a fit but, I’m torn when I read this post between feeling like, “Yeah, I remember throwing similar fits and I’m not bipolar; Sally (a bipolar friend of mine) is bipolar and she never threw fits like this because her parents would NOT allow it; this kid just needs to be reined in.” and “Wow, this kid, this family needs help.”
There are many more thoughts and questions that I have based on my experiences and some of the dynamics in your household – e.g., I wonder about the correlation between JJ coming to live there and the frequency and/or intensity of Braden’s outbreaks, etc. – but they’re none of my biz.
I hope you all find some equilibrium, I can’t imagine how awful it must be to deal with this everyday, I feel for you. I would say that there’s hope for Braden because I threw tantrums and turned out okay as an adult but . . . I know it’s not that simple (plus, I’m not bipolar and that changes things quite a bit). However, my best friend is bipolar and she is pretty high functioning – we’ve been friends for 25 years and I never suspected she was until she told me. Apparently they have great drugs for bipolar disorder now-a-days.
p.s. My mom's child rearing philosophy was that children cannot express themselves as well as adults so most things that children do are their attempts to express themselves with their limited capabilities and that rather than censor the behavior, try to figure out what's causing it and address that. That said, I wanted to point out that you're a saint for being as patient as you are with Braden during these episodes and that feeling like you want to knock Braden into the next block for acting that way is normal. What's amazing is that you understand and restrain yourself. You're a good mom.
"First, you're a powerful writer, and maybe someday you can channel some of your frustration about this into something special, and something that might help other people in the same boat. (I've always thought you were a great writer--not just this.)"
Schell,
I echo Verb's comment
---emma
"My comment is not an invitation for a forty paragraph rebuttal, Vanda"
LOL Tree
Well thank you Emma , i was going to point out that very sentence myself as to why I didn't say a word about Sonyas loony "red flag" comment. As she herself said she didn't want an answer so I let it stand as the type of loony statement Sonya has a tendency to come up with even tho the ever brilliant bert demanded I give an rebuttle to it . Bert seems to have conviently stopped copying and pasting before he got that part down and again thanks Emma .Allan
REading all this as an outsider, its pretty clear everyone is having a good time. It's like a long rally in a tennis game, but you don't have to swivel your head back and forth. But there have no aces! Somebody serve harder! LOL!
urb says she's not bi-polar, and she says it twice in case we doubt her!
Anon - Oy . . . (rolling eyes)
This may be just as example of different personalities. We in the Greek choir are the "nice" people. Allan and the like-minded cohort anonypusses are the "tell it like it is" people.
Say a kid related to Allan graduates from college. Allan is invited to a graduation party. He gets there and watches the Greek Chorus people praising the boy, lauding him for his achievement. When Allan gets a chance at the boy, he lambasts him for wasting his time getting a degree in English and warns the kid about how tough life is and how he would have been better off something else. He tells him how hard it's going to be to make a living.
Some of the people at the party would be aghast at Allan's behavior, some would pretend to be shocked, but secretly would agree that getting a degree in English wasn't all that smart a move. And some would vocalize a semblance of agreement with Allan.
Then 18 months later, at the funeral after the kid committed suicide because he couldn't get a job, Allan would go to the wake and tell people, "I told you so!" And he had! Again, the Greek Chorus would go tsk tsk, some would pretend to go tsk tsk and some would say, outloud, that Allan was correct.
And frankly, there is no "right" way to be. We all follow the paths on which we feel most comfortable. And if you're comfortable with who you are, who the hell cares what anyone else thinks?
Thank you for the obvious attention you have given to all I write bert and it's obvious you have dwelt on it hour after hour and I'm terribly flattered but as I have stated quite a few times bert and had hoped by now you would understand this blog isn't about me and it isn't about you and it's no place for a little ego piss off game like you seem to want bert . the blog is and was about schell and the subject she wanted to talk about which happened to be her sons problems and her problems in dealing with his illness.
If you would like to discuss my philosophy of what I see as right and or wrong in life I have a blog. Go over there and I'll gladly engage you in spirited conversation or if you would rather go to the main page area , bert , we need a big controversy over there . It's over due . For some odd reason you seem to have a fear of the main community blog but try it bert. It will be lots of fun .
And thats that Bert , I will add you have a serious ego problem and you really should deal with it and try to see why you get so pissy about nothing more then different opinions then you and your back up singers have .
So hopfully I'll see you on the main page Bert and please start something wildly controversial so we can get the place into a true knock down , drag out fight . It'll be great fun Bert.
Until then lets stay on topic here and thats the ill boy Schell has and any other subjects Schell brings into her blog . It is her blog after all bert and lets try and keep it that way .
Allan
If you would like detailed answer to your last post here Bert its on my blog. You know where it is , It's called Sparks place . If you don't want to read it thats fine too . allan
I'm guessing that the anonymous anonymous (meaning that which isn't signed by Allan and the like) is Bidet.
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